tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1331071225961603592.post380241611959925609..comments2023-11-02T00:38:16.998-07:00Comments on FORTRESS FREEDOM: If I were standing for Lib Dem leader, I'd say something like this:Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1331071225961603592.post-53452263861323414342007-10-19T14:53:00.000-07:002007-10-19T14:53:00.000-07:00S, I have replied on previous thread, where it's m...S, I have replied on previous thread, where it's more in context.<BR/><BR/>Jock's not happy with 'free marketeers' and historically I must agree. But I glad he has to think up a better word, and not me!Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1331071225961603592.post-7659444881153730742007-10-19T14:26:00.000-07:002007-10-19T14:26:00.000-07:00Tristan - I am not quite sure where I stand on the...Tristan - I am not quite sure where I stand on the privatization of education and health, because I do not know an awful lot about either issue, so I tend to steer clear of making any definite pronouncements until I'm better informed. I can see why privatization could work, but I could also see how it could be problematic. Further reading required, I think!sanbikinoraionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823745465626270567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1331071225961603592.post-66648833306894447782007-10-19T14:21:00.000-07:002007-10-19T14:21:00.000-07:00Mark, what's your quibble with the notion of stake...Mark, what's your quibble with the notion of stakeholder grants? I'd like to debate the idea with someone who is opposed to them, but if you could give me a rundown on your stance then I'd be grateful for the brain-fodder.sanbikinoraionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823745465626270567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1331071225961603592.post-51815642887966414002007-10-19T14:20:00.000-07:002007-10-19T14:20:00.000-07:00Thanks for all the comments.Er, on all of the numb...Thanks for all the comments.<BR/><BR/>Er, on all of the numbers, I confess that I pulled them out of my arse as placeholders (that's why they are all followed by question marks - I just forgot to go and insert the actual numbers!)<BR/><BR/>Jock: you're right on free market = liberal. I was trying to capture the sense in which the Tories are right-wing authoritarians to contrast with left-wing authoritarians. Can you suggest a replacement for "free marketeers" in this context?sanbikinoraionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823745465626270567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1331071225961603592.post-74378059248436664912007-10-19T04:33:00.000-07:002007-10-19T04:33:00.000-07:00I agree with Jock here - Free markets are liberal,...I agree with Jock here - Free markets are liberal, you cannot support them fully and be authoritarian.<BR/><BR/>I would go further on one key point - we should put the spending power in individual's hands.<BR/>What's the point of transferring it from central politicians to local politicians? It doesn't give the individual more say.<BR/><BR/>I would say in policing that this has to be handled collectively, but health and education? Nothing says they must be except prejudice against liberal markets and desire for power over others.<BR/>Give individuals the power to control their own lives and spend money directly as much as possible (their own for most people, benefits from general taxation for others).<BR/><BR/>I also quibble with your claim that 2million are living in poverty - do you mean that 2 million cannot afford to eat, clothe or house themselves? Or do you mean 2 million are below an arbitrary relative line defined as poverty? The former is a scandal, the latter is less worrying.<BR/><BR/>Poverty of opportunity however - there I'm sure we'd agree - but is that a function of less wealth or not? Partly it is, but its largely down to government enforcing social rigidity.<BR/><BR/>Other than that, CBI I can go for easily, LVT I would too. Shrinking the state - I'm 100% on board.<BR/><BR/>Having a clear set of ideas founded upon liberty and freedom - that is the key. Even if I disagree with some conclusions it would be fantastic to have this sort of leadership and I would be happy to follow (and try to persuade on those few points I disagree with)Tristanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15395992764678278326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1331071225961603592.post-8882923957342300742007-10-19T04:28:00.000-07:002007-10-19T04:28:00.000-07:00SB, I'm not sure if that's a spoof or not, but it ...SB, I'm not sure if that's a spoof or not, but it all sounds pretty good to me ... apart from the 'stakeholder grant'. Big Yes to Citizen's Income, big No to 'stakeholder grant'. If you remove that bit, I'll link to this under my "Words of wisdom" section.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1331071225961603592.post-44466319272498632007-10-19T03:48:00.000-07:002007-10-19T03:48:00.000-07:00A goodly lot of sensible policy - especially of co...A goodly lot of sensible policy - especially of course on LVT and Citizens' Income.<BR/><BR/>One small quibble I'd have though - near the beginning you talk of a century of warfare between authoritarian socialism and authoritarian free marketeers. I would not argue that both left and right have been authoritarian and centralizing, but I would quibble with the idea that the Tories, whom I presume you mean by the latter, have been "free marketeers".<BR/><BR/>Free Trade is a liberal banner, protectionism was the Tory banner, at least until 1979 (and by the sound of it recently again in the noughties of this century). Our economy is riddled with protectionism - even I'd suggest the WTO is about protectionism rather than free trade as it unfairly advantages large scale trans-rnational suppliers.<BR/><BR/>I believe we must also rediscover that "Free Trade" agenda - that brought Churchill to our party and which led Lloyd-George finally to bow out of coalition government in the thirties when the Tories reasserted their protectionist agenda.<BR/><BR/>If you have't already, have a read of one of Henry George's other works - "Protectionism or Free Trade" for the full SP on it.Jock Coatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15550558005508328017noreply@blogger.com